Error code 005E21

[Layor]

Hi all,
After a long absence I am finally back. A few personal things going on and also getting the zed ready for its M.O.T. a week ago. It did not get through because of one rear wheel not holding a good enough percentage on the handbrake. That was soon sorted, a fairly easy job but one I had wished I had done earlier! The only other thing was after I had fitted all new braided hoses to the calipers and bled the system, all was fine, then on the way to the testing station the dreaded yellow lights showed up on the dash. Once I had arrived I switched off and restarted the engine, all was well again. But not when the mechanic took it for the test!! Yup, they were on again... failed!
The code on the Carly is 005E21, which comes up as pressure sensor 2. Which, from what I have read, seems to be on the master cylinder. I have checked the connections but my guess, if I am on the right track, is that one, or both, of the sensors on the side of the master cylinder are faulty. After driving back from my friends, where I was working on it this afternoon, I switched off, waited a while then restarted. No lights! I don't think my luck will be that good when I start it up tomorrow ready to take it for the re-test!
Can anyone advise me if I am on the right track, please? Or has any suggestions!
It must have something to do with changing the hoses as it all started after that. I have re-bled the system and checked for loose connections and any leaks. Everything is okay. I tried a reset on the zed, disconnecting the battery and also tried clearing the fault codes with the Carly. Would there be any chance of air getting into the master cylinder?
Cheers, Colin.

 

[NZ00Z3]

You are correct, the pressure sensors are the problem. If you change one, change both.

 

[Layor]

Thanks Murray, I have been checking online, it's an easy enough job to change them. Just wondering if it is worth taking it out and flushing it. As it is intermittent at times could there be some crud in it? I'd have to get a friend to hold their finger over the hole though!!!
Colin.

 

[NZ00Z3]

Typically its just the sensors that are the problem. I have the intermittent problem on my 3.0 L Z3 and just live with it.

 

[t-tony]

Colin, what you need is a piece of 1/2 " copper water pipe about 3ft long and a piece of flat plate about 2" wide and 1/8" thick and 6" long. Drill a hole in the plate so it just slides down the copper. Use it to wedge the brake pedal down like in the attached (soon) picture. This will stop your reservoir emptying itself on the floor, and, no don't need an assistant.

Like this.

This is it in use. The trick to making one is the hole in the flat plate has to be as tight as possible but still allowing you to slide it down the tube.
UNLESS you happen to have any OCTOPLUS fishing gear. But that's another story.

Tony.

 

[Layor]

Usually that would not be a problem, Murray. But it goes in for a re-test tomorrow and if they see the fault lights on it will be an automatic fail. So it's a case of getting new ones, but at the earliest that would be Monday, or trying to see if flushing it would work. I can do that in 15 minutes or so. Which brings me to Tony's post. Thanks Tony, good idea, not seen the pic yet but I know what you are saying. Is it worth flushing or do I get down on my knees and plead with the tester to give me a bit more time. M.O.T. doesn't run out 'til Monday, but that would probably mean a complete re-test.
Colin.

 

[t-tony]

Usually that would not be a problem, Murray. But it goes in for a re-test tomorrow and if they see the fault lights on it will be an automatic fail. So it's a case of getting new ones, but at the earliest that would be Monday, or trying to see if flushing it would work. I can do that in 15 minutes or so. Which brings me to Tony's post. Thanks Tony, good idea, not seen the pic yet but I know what you are saying. Is it worth flushing or do I get down on my knees and plead with the tester to give me a bit more time. M.O.T. doesn't run out 'til Monday, but that would probably mean a complete re-test.
Colin.

You are given 10 working days to go back for a partial re test Colin (ie 2 weeks) I would probably try removing the sensors and thoroughly cleaning with brake cleaner. I would then re fit the sensors and just bleed them at that point. Never had this issue at work so can't say it's a common thing at all. What was the date of the original test mate?

Tony.

 

[Layor]

Thanks Tony, seen the pic now. I'm sure I can cobble one up. I'll have to get up early though, test is at 11am!!!
But that will sure be a useful tool in times to come!
Colin

 

[t-tony]

Thanks Tony, seen the pic now. I'm sure I can cobble one up. I'll have to get up early though, test is at 11am!!!
But that will sure be a useful tool in times to come!
Colin

Very useful bit of kit mate, along with a pressure bleeder if you can run to something you wouldn't necessarily use that often.

Tony.

 

[Layor]

Original test was 23rd May, Tony. So a few days left yet. But it's trying to get it booked in, they are so busy. But I'm guessing that is their problem if it is available for testing but they are unable to do it before the two weeks are up. Or am I wrong?
Colin.

 

[t-tony]

Bit tricky really, would be unfair to say they can't fit it in if I'm honest. We would never do that. You have till 6th June to get it back to them mate.

Tony.

ps. Working days do not include Saturdays and Bank holidays so in fact you have until 7th of June.

 

[Layor]

I must admit, they are not a bad bunch of lads there and my mate is on very good terms with them, so I should be able to sort something out.
And yes, I do have a pressure bleeder, thank heavens, the dog is useless at holding the pedal down.
Colin.

 

[t-tony]

You obviously need a heavier dog then Col. By the way, nice to see you back mate.

Tony.

 

[Layor]

I'm feeding her as much as I can!
Story so far, started the car this morning, no lights on the dash. Took it to my mates four miles away, still no lights. We both went back
to the testing station, no lights. Examiner (Woody) got in took it around to put it on test ramp, stopped, got out and was talking to someone when they said, 'Is that light supposed to be on?' Expletives all round!
Even Woody said that there was nothing showing when he drove it. Anyway he did the brake tests, all was okay as far as that went.
But, good lad that he is, he gave me the pass as long as I had it corrected by the time he came back from holiday in ten days time. So, new pressure switch on order. But I shall be going to my mates over the weekend and taking the switch out and cleaning it to see if it does make a difference. I didn't want to do it this morning, while nothing was showing, as it might have b******* it up. I needn't have worried, it did that on its own!!!
Sometimes the mechanics Gods are with you, other times they are on tea break.
Colin,

 

[Layor]

By the way, thanks for the welcome back, Tony. And that was very sporting of the other passengers on your plane to reduce their baggage allowance so you could get your goodies back home.
Colin.

 

[ppavuk]

I had exactly same issue couple of years before. Replaced sensor 2, and after a week sensor 1 went. I've ordered used from low-mileage car (sensors the same on e46, so there is plenty in supply) for something like £25 a piece or pair, can't remember. To replace you don't even need to bleed brakes. Sensors are positioned slightly downwards, so I unbolted both, but left them in place. Then I replaced both, but not tightened, and got my Mrs to depress brake pedal same time I've tightened sensors. Few drops of fluid escaped and pedal was as stiff as before. And didn't had any issues since.

Why they die - it because people fail to replace brake fluid every 2-3 years. It get water in, and sensors corrode.

 

[t-tony]

I had exactly same issue couple of years before. Replaced sensor 2, and after a week sensor 1 went. I've ordered used from low-mileage car (sensors the same on e46, so there is plenty in supply) for something like £25 a piece or pair, can't remember. To replace you don't even need to bleed brakes. Sensors are positioned slightly downwards, so I unbolted both, but left them in place. Then I replaced both, but not tightened, and got my Mrs to depress brake pedal same time I've tightened sensors. Few drops of fluid escaped and pedal was as stiff as before. And didn't had any issues since.

Why they die - it because people fail to replace brake fluid every 2-3 years. It get water in, and sensors corrode.

That is good info Peter. Thank you.

Tony.

 

[Layor]

Quick update.
I didn't have to replace the sensor, took it out while a mate held the pedal partway down ( have not got around to making that tool yet, Tony!), sprayed inside with brake cleaner for 20 - 30 seconds, replaced the sensor and before tightening up fully, got my mate to gently depress the pedal so that fluid was coming out, then fully tightened. Started the engine, no warning lights on dash panel. That was last Saturday, still all clear a week later, and now have the years M.O.T.
So, if you do get the same problem, try cleaning the sensor first, it may not work but it costs nothing to try.
As Peter said, the replacement sensors are around the £25 each mark. You can get them cheaper from the continent, i.e. Lithuania etc. But I guess you have to take a chance on the quality. But, having said that, I have had replacement parts from over there with no problems.
Colin.

 

[ppavuk]

Quick update.
I didn't have to replace the sensor
Colin.

Cleaning may help, or may not. I've tried to clean mine before replaced, but this helped for a week or so, then the light again. probably depends on how badly they corroded.

I found getting parts of ebay international sellers often a lot cheaper then here in UK, didn't had much problems with intl sellers. Only in case if return is necessary it is much more hassle and expense. Quality of second-hand parts are roughly the same everywhere, the cheap labour it is why Lithuanians can sell cheaper.