M44 z3 consuming lots of oil

[MikeK]

Hi,

Second post of the day,

My z3 seems really broken. Fuel tank and mirror issues and now... It's consuming oil. A lot of oil.

It was close to the max line like 80-85% there on the stick this week.

I took it driving some back roads high rpms fast turning doing 100mph. I checked back home and I am at the minimum mark for oil.

I cannot see any leaks anywhere and hat would be a significan leak.

When I rev he engine or idle there is no white smoke or anything, no weird vibrations or sounds.

I checked the radiator reservoir and the coolant is very clean. Temperatures remained fine too.

Seems too big of a leak must have lost 3 liters or more in like two runs. Intense runs but...
I don't know seems too much to be just a ccv valve. Any ideas?
Thanks!

 

[t-tony]

The difference between Min. and Max. is 1 litre. So, if it wasn't even on Max. you can't have used 3 litres if it's only down to the Min. mark now?

Tony.

 

[MikeK]

Still though that's significant isn't it?
Any suggestions where I should look for he issue?

Thanks

 

[t-tony]

First thing I would do is a thorough check for the amount of oil used over a known mileage. Only 3 ways oil gets out of the engine, leakage, into the cooling system or burned through the combustion. You will see a leak, you have checked the coolant is still clean/ clear so it must be burning it. But that would show up as blue smoke. Take out the spark plugs and, keeping them in the order you remove them post a picture of them showing the electrodes. That way we can see which if any is burning oil as the plugs would be oily and sooty.

Tony.

 

[Robert Hill]

Could be dip stick o ring with that much oil lose

 

[t-tony]

Could be dip stick o ring with that much oil lose

That would create a leak?

Tony.

 

[Nodzed]

If it isn't leaking or transferring then its burning it. Possible oil rings gummed up or failure.

 

[MikeK]

Do you mean piston rings? I have replaced the oil filter housing gasket and rings and they are dry since then. I am thinking crankshaft front seal could be leaking but I need to take plastics off to check.
I'll post more this weekend. I need to also check the ventilation hoses if they are oily and the spark plugs. Can't really see any clear leaks at this point.

 

[Nodzed]

Do you mean piston rings?

Yes the bottom rings are the oil rings that scape the oil out of the bores back into the engine these can gum up over time and stop working correctly, its only possible its that it could be any number of things I have come across a few 2.2s with this issue and usually its down to short journeys and a lack of use, a good long hard run (100s of miles not 10s) frees up the oil rings and stops the burning, no idea about the M44 though TBH, but as said there are only 3 ways for oil to leave an engine, leak, transfer and burn. Try an engine flush at the next oil change? TBH I use one every service.

 

[MikeK]

Yes the bottom rings are the oil rings that scape the oil out of the bores back into the engine these can gum up over time and stop working correctly, its only possible its that it could be any number of things I have come across a few 2.2s with this issue and usually its down to short journeys and a lack of use, a good long hard run (100s of miles not 10s) frees up the oil rings and stops the burning, no idea about the M44 though TBH, but as said there are only 3 ways for oil to leave an engine, leak, transfer and burn. Try an engine flush at the next oil change? TBH I use one every service.

Yeah i may try that too at some point. I was going to attempt a rebuild at some point but thats way too expensive for me now.
But if i need to change piston rings it would make sense to do gaskets, water pump, thermostat, oil pump maybe bearings and make the engine like new. Maybe a 6cylinder swap if i find a refurbished one for the same price of the m44 rebuild. But then UK laws and insurance may be weird.

 

[IainP]

What Nodzed said.

I'd do a compression check. I've seen lots of people 'rebuild'engines because of perceived problems for no real reason.

I've rebuilt a lot of engines, it's not just buying a lot of parts and following a manual. There are quite a lot of specialist tools involved to do it properly, not to mention knowledge. I can assemble a 16V engine in under 2 hours, any idiot can, but will it go bang or last? Takes me a solid WEEK to properly measure, check, dry build, measure, modify, dry build, recheck, strip, clean then fully reassemble an engine that can have it's nuts caned without running a bearing or going bang.

Todays service limits are far too long, petrol and diesel are now full of rubbish that contaminate oil and gum things up.
Get some cheap oil, drain off what's in there, add a litre of flush, then top off with oil. Start and run it for 20 mins. Do NOT rev it.. Switch off and drain it, you'll be utterly horrified at what comes out. New filter. If you have enough oil, i'd do it again. New filter and oil. You don't need to go for super duper oil, I go with the grade, not the brand. 30%, or more, of the cost of expensive oil is the advertising. If you have the storage, buy it in 20L drums, soooo much cheaper.

 

[Ianmc]

Just by way of benchmark, my M44 engine uses (at most) half a ltr of oil between annual services. I average around 10K miles per annum. I would of thought that if your burning the amount as stated, you would have blue smoke following you everywhere (memories of a 1275cc midget engine, cars behind were known to put their lights on!). If this is not the case, my money would be on a leak.
By the way, if you want a 6 pot, suggest buy such a car rather than swap one in to your car. For my money, the M44 engine is great for a small sportscar; bigger engines likely good for cruising (excepting the S50/S54 of course which do both exceptionally well).
Good luck.

 

[MikeK]

Just by way of benchmark, my M44 engine uses (at most) half a ltr of oil between annual services. I average around 10K miles per annum. I would of thought that if your burning the amount as stated, you would have blue smoke following you everywhere (memories of a 1275cc midget engine, cars behind were known to put their lights on!). If this is not the case, my money would be on a leak.
By the way, if you want a 6 pot, suggest buy such a car rather than swap one in to your car. For my money, the M44 engine is great for a small sportscar; bigger engines likely good for cruising (excepting the S50/S54 of course which do both exceptionally well).
Good luck.

I do like the m44 but I calculated if I buy parts and send it to a machine shop it would be close to 1000£. It would be new at that point but expensive.
I hope I can find a leak somewhere that explains everything.

 

[MikeK]

What Nodzed said.

I'd do a compression check. I've seen lots of people 'rebuild'engines because of perceived problems for no real reason.

I've rebuilt a lot of engines, it's not just buying a lot of parts and following a manual. There are quite a lot of specialist tools involved to do it properly, not to mention knowledge. I can assemble a 16V engine in under 2 hours, any idiot can, but will it go bang or last? Takes me a solid WEEK to properly measure, check, dry build, measure, modify, dry build, recheck, strip, clean then fully reassemble an engine that can have it's nuts caned without running a bearing or going bang.

Todays service limits are far too long, petrol and diesel are now full of rubbish that contaminate oil and gum things up.
Get some cheap oil, drain off what's in there, add a litre of flush, then top off with oil. Start and run it for 20 mins. Do NOT rev it.. Switch off and drain it, you'll be utterly horrified at what comes out. New filter. If you have enough oil, i'd do it again. New filter and oil. You don't need to go for super duper oil, I go with the grade, not the brand. 30%, or more, of the cost of expensive oil is the advertising. If you have the storage, buy it in 20L drums, soooo much cheaper.

But I would assume (with no engineering background) that bad oil would clog the channels and cause wearing in the internals instead of leaks. A leak in my mind is weak seal or too thin oil. I am using 10w40 by the way.
I'll do my testing this weekend and we'll see maybe I just need to do a good clean like you said and then maybe do a long trip without reving too hard or something.

 

[Nodzed]

Whatever you do don't drive it or rev it with flush in the engine

 

[Nodzed]

@MikeK Best way to check if its the oil rings is get it up to temp then find a long steep downhill. Get a good speed up then coast down the hill in gear using the engine to brake NOT touching the throttle, at the bottom hit the throttle and look behind (or have someone following) you will soon know if its burning oil but you need a good long hill. One of the guys on here had a zed that never smoked until he did this, then you could lose sight of him in the smoke.

BTW where are you based?

 

[MikeK]

After some googling and your suggestions my plan is:
1) check under the car carefully for any leaks. And check spark plugs.
2) do a flush.
3)check oil level and then drive slow for a while see if it consumes any and how much. If not then I could try high rpms. If it always consumes oil must be piston rings if only at speed could be valve cover gasket, O-rings and valve seals.

Valve stuff I can probably fix. Piston rings would probably be a rebuild I guess..

 

[MikeK]

@MikeK Best way to check if its the oil rings is get it up to temp then find a long steep downhill. Get a good speed up then coast down the hill in gear using the engine to brake NOT touching the throttle, at the bottom hit the throttle and look behind (or have someone following) you will soon know if its burning oil but you need a good long hill. One of the guys on here had a zed that never smoked until he did this, then you could lose sight of him in the smoke.

BTW where are you based?

That may be a good sign then because Ive never noticed any smoke when driving.
I am in Stoke-on-Trent.

 

[t-tony]

If the valve stem oil seal were worn you would get a puff of blue smoke when you start up. Reason being that when the engine stops there are always some valves remain open which means oil can run down the valve stem into the cylinder. Stem seals, like all rubber components get hard with age and consequently don’t do there job.

Tony.

 

[MikeK]

I tried to remove the sparkplugs. Too tight, i think the guy i bought it from was an idiot... put some wd40 and left it for tomorrow.
No leaks above them though.

Looks fine to me.

Then i got a video from the exhaust starting and reving (the car was warm enough to rev a bit).
Some metal dust flying from the exhaust or maybe just the camera does weird things with the heat.
I cannot see any smoke.
I will update again tomorrow if i can remove the spark plugs.