New Bridge

FRANKIE

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American Zeds
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1755548854566.png

Italy has approved a 15.5 billion dollar plan to build the world’s longest suspension bridge across the Strait of Messina. The project will connect Sicily to Calabria with a span of nearly 3.7 kilometers, designed to withstand seismic activity and carry both cars and trains. Travel time will drop from ferry trips of over an hour to about ten minutes by car and two and a half hours by train. The government says it will also serve as strategic infrastructure for NATO, while critics raise concerns about environmental impact, earthquake risk, and potential organized crime involvement. Completion is expected by 2032 or 2033
 

Pingu

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View attachment 345477
Italy has approved a 15.5 billion dollar plan to build the world’s longest suspension bridge across the Strait of Messina. The project will connect Sicily to Calabria with a span of nearly 3.7 kilometers, designed to withstand seismic activity and carry both cars and trains. Travel time will drop from ferry trips of over an hour to about ten minutes by car and two and a half hours by train. The government says it will also serve as strategic infrastructure for NATO, while critics raise concerns about environmental impact, earthquake risk, and potential organized crime involvement. Completion is expected by 2032 or 2033
That'll be justification to use some of Trump's extra defence money that all NATO countries have had to allocate.

We are doing the same by budgeting stuff through the defence budget that was never streamed that way before. Chagos money is coming out of our defence budget, for example.
 

Duncodin

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Folks, we're talking about NATO. Great people, great concept. But you know what? We're paying for a lot of it. We're paying a lot. And frankly, they're not. They're not paying their fair share. It's a disgrace.

We need to tell them, look, you've got to build bridges. You've got to build up your own infrastructure. Big, beautiful defense infrastructure. The best. We're not talking about little things. We're talking about big, tremendous things.

And you know what? I'l take rhe credit so make it so strong, so beautiful. And then, you know, just in case, maybe we'll have to deal with it again. It's a great deal for everybody. A great deal. The best deals. We'll make NATO great again, believe me.
 

Pond

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The project will connect Sicily to Calabria with a span of nearly 3.7 kilometers, designed to withstand seismic activity and carry both cars and trains. Travel time will drop from ferry trips of over an hour to about ten minutes by car and two and a half hours by train.
Those Italians don't go very quick if it takes 10 minutes in a car and 2 1/2 hours for a train to do 3.7km or 2 1/4 miles over a bridge.
And I thought the trains in the UK were crap!
 

Duncodin

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Those Italians don't go very quick if it takes 10 minutes in a car and 2 1/2 hours for a train to do 3.7km or 2 1/4 miles over a bridge.
And I thought the trains in the UK were crap!
Yeah. But just get your head round that bridge - a single span of 3.7 kilometers !!! The curent longest single span (if I'm not wrong) is in Turkey and that's just 2km. Prior to that it was Japan at just under 2km

And now the country that built the Morandi bridge. . . and the Alfasud - wants to build the world's longest-span suspension bridge. But not just to beat the current record by a few feet. They want to knock it out of the ball park.
 

Pingu

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Yeah. But just get your head round that bridge - a single span of 3.7 kilometers !!! The curent longest single span (if I'm not wrong) is in Turkey and that's just 2km. Prior to that it was Japan at just under 2km

And now the country that built the Morandi bridge. . . and the Alfasud - wants to build the world's longest-span suspension bridge. But not just to beat the current record by a few feet. They want to knock it out of the ball park.
The cables may have to be Kevlar, or something exotic. I'm not sure that steel could cope.

It would be interesting to see the fag packet calculations.
 

KASPar

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The cables may have to be Kevlar, or something exotic. I'm not sure that steel could cope.

It would be interesting to see the fag packet calculations.
In my early career, I was involved in the development of Kevlar with DuPontwhen it was a military secret. There was also Twaron developed by Akzo at the same time. A bit like NyLon earlier where 2 organisations developed the same material in different places at the same time. I worked with both DuPont and Akzo.

My work involved replacing high tensile steel wire ropes used in long haul conveyor system (the co I worked for held the world distance record of 52Km for a single flight conveyor system in Australia, my first project as part of the world's 1st billion dollar mega project). The requirement was to reduce electrical power required to haul ever longer distances in ever more remote regions where power infrastructure was limited, hence the need to reduce system mass and frictional losses.

The obvious choice was para aramid (Kevlar/Twaron) due to the weight/tensile strength ratio compared to HTS. Another option was Dyneema, a variant of NyLon, but due to moisture absorption was discounted.

Unfortunately I failed with para aramid due to intertersal abrasion ie the fibres destroyed each other when dynamic loading was applied, in simple terms.

However from failure we learn. I then developed a hybrid cable product that was branded Triton under my employer at the time, later being made under licence for us by Bridon as Tiger. This was a central fibre core, with an extruded polyester (Hytrel) cover. Each of the outer 6 steel wire strands were then sheaved in a trapezoidal wedge extruded using a rotating die, the clever bit and a first. The wedge would form the helix of the outer strands. Mathematically a wire cable/rope shouldn't work. By effectively creating a pre formed helix for closing the final rope/cable and having smooth surfaces friction was reduced.

That work was decried by Professors of Engineering at several universities as defying the laws of physics, not the first nor last time in my career did I do such things. We then sold the rights to Bridon, who then in concert with me developed a product for cable stayed bridges. The 1st being the dartford Crossing where the wire profile, almost a flattened figure of 8 was drawn adding zinc for corrosion protection, then extruded with a polyester sheaf before being closed for the final ropes/cables.

The failure mode of para aramid is how bullet proof vests, personal armour are made. DuPont asked us to continue working with them in that arena. The CEO explained it wasn't part of his core business. DuPont gave him a cheque for £24m to cover our failed development costs. Fantastic time working in a true industrial conglomerate where failure was accepted and some amazing things were done.

Fantastic memories to take into retirement at the end of the month after 49 years in the wonderful world of Engineering.

Been a long time since, but the technique is probably further developed to use in bridges.
 

ktnez99

Zorg Guru (IV)
British Zeds
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Points
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West Midlands
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In my early career, I was involved in the development of Kevlar with DuPontwhen it was a military secret. There was also Twaron developed by Akzo at the same time. A bit like NyLon earlier where 2 organisations developed the same material in different places at the same time. I worked with both DuPont and Akzo.

My work involved replacing high tensile steel wire ropes used in long haul conveyor system (the co I worked for held the world distance record of 52Km for a single flight conveyor system in Australia, my first project as part of the world's 1st billion dollar mega project). The requirement was to reduce electrical power required to haul ever longer distances in ever more remote regions where power infrastructure was limited, hence the need to reduce system mass and frictional losses.

The obvious choice was para aramid (Kevlar/Twaron) due to the weight/tensile strength ratio compared to HTS. Another option was Dyneema, a variant of NyLon, but due to moisture absorption was discounted.

Unfortunately I failed with para aramid due to intertersal abrasion ie the fibres destroyed each other when dynamic loading was applied, in simple terms.

However from failure we learn. I then developed a hybrid cable product that was branded Triton under my employer at the time, later being made under licence for us by Bridon as Tiger. This was a central fibre core, with an extruded polyester (Hytrel) cover. Each of the outer 6 steel wire strands were then sheaved in a trapezoidal wedge extruded using a rotating die, the clever bit and a first. The wedge would form the helix of the outer strands. Mathematically a wire cable/rope shouldn't work. By effectively creating a pre formed helix for closing the final rope/cable and having smooth surfaces friction was reduced.

That work was decried by Professors of Engineering at several universities as defying the laws of physics, not the first nor last time in my career did I do such things. We then sold the rights to Bridon, who then in concert with me developed a product for cable stayed bridges. The 1st being the dartford Crossing where the wire profile, almost a flattened figure of 8 was drawn adding zinc for corrosion protection, then extruded with a polyester sheaf before being closed for the final ropes/cables.

The failure mode of para aramid is how bullet proof vests, personal armour are made. DuPont asked us to continue working with them in that arena. The CEO explained it wasn't part of his core business. DuPont gave him a cheque for £24m to cover our failed development costs. Fantastic time working in a true industrial conglomerate where failure was accepted and some amazing things were done.

Fantastic memories to take into retirement at the end of the month after 49 years in the wonderful world of Engineering.

Been a long time since, but the technique is probably further developed to use in bridges.
WOW!!! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
How exciting, challenging, creative and innovative a career you’ve had @KASPar
You’re right, of course. Failures breed successes. And out of these failures come groundbreaking solutions. Companies which fear failure are doomed, imo.
 

FRANKIE

Zorg Guru (V)
American Zeds
The M44 Massive
Joined
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Points
193
Location
Egg Harbor Township, New Jersey, USA
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Z3
In my early career, I was involved in the development of Kevlar with DuPontwhen it was a military secret. There was also Twaron developed by Akzo at the same time. A bit like NyLon earlier where 2 organisations developed the same material in different places at the same time. I worked with both DuPont and Akzo.

My work involved replacing high tensile steel wire ropes used in long haul conveyor system (the co I worked for held the world distance record of 52Km for a single flight conveyor system in Australia, my first project as part of the world's 1st billion dollar mega project). The requirement was to reduce electrical power required to haul ever longer distances in ever more remote regions where power infrastructure was limited, hence the need to reduce system mass and frictional losses.

The obvious choice was para aramid (Kevlar/Twaron) due to the weight/tensile strength ratio compared to HTS. Another option was Dyneema, a variant of NyLon, but due to moisture absorption was discounted.

Unfortunately I failed with para aramid due to intertersal abrasion ie the fibres destroyed each other when dynamic loading was applied, in simple terms.

However from failure we learn. I then developed a hybrid cable product that was branded Triton under my employer at the time, later being made under licence for us by Bridon as Tiger. This was a central fibre core, with an extruded polyester (Hytrel) cover. Each of the outer 6 steel wire strands were then sheaved in a trapezoidal wedge extruded using a rotating die, the clever bit and a first. The wedge would form the helix of the outer strands. Mathematically a wire cable/rope shouldn't work. By effectively creating a pre formed helix for closing the final rope/cable and having smooth surfaces friction was reduced.

That work was decried by Professors of Engineering at several universities as defying the laws of physics, not the first nor last time in my career did I do such things. We then sold the rights to Bridon, who then in concert with me developed a product for cable stayed bridges. The 1st being the dartford Crossing where the wire profile, almost a flattened figure of 8 was drawn adding zinc for corrosion protection, then extruded with a polyester sheaf before being closed for the final ropes/cables.

The failure mode of para aramid is how bullet proof vests, personal armour are made. DuPont asked us to continue working with them in that arena. The CEO explained it wasn't part of his core business. DuPont gave him a cheque for £24m to cover our failed development costs. Fantastic time working in a true industrial conglomerate where failure was accepted and some amazing things were done.

Fantastic memories to take into retirement at the end of the month after 49 years in the wonderful world of Engineering.

Been a long time since, but the technique is probably further developed to use in bridges.
Reading that left me feeling a bit insignificant.......Frankie
 

FRANKIE

Zorg Guru (V)
American Zeds
The M44 Massive
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Points
193
Location
Egg Harbor Township, New Jersey, USA
Model of Z
Z3
Those Italians don't go very quick if it takes 10 minutes in a car and 2 1/2 hours for a train to do 3.7km or 2 1/4 miles over a bridge.
And I thought the trains in the UK were crap!
I understand how the time difference seems a bit absurd, but then it occurred to me that the train had sleeper cars and anything ITALIANS would do in a sleeper car would, out of necessity, take more than 10 minutes..............Frankie
 

Pingu

Zorg Guru (III)
3rd Party Trader
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Points
145
In my early career, I was involved in the development of Kevlar with DuPontwhen it was a military secret. There was also Twaron developed by Akzo at the same time. A bit like NyLon earlier where 2 organisations developed the same material in different places at the same time. I worked with both DuPont and Akzo.

My work involved replacing high tensile steel wire ropes used in long haul conveyor system (the co I worked for held the world distance record of 52Km for a single flight conveyor system in Australia, my first project as part of the world's 1st billion dollar mega project). The requirement was to reduce electrical power required to haul ever longer distances in ever more remote regions where power infrastructure was limited, hence the need to reduce system mass and frictional losses.

The obvious choice was para aramid (Kevlar/Twaron) due to the weight/tensile strength ratio compared to HTS. Another option was Dyneema, a variant of NyLon, but due to moisture absorption was discounted.

Unfortunately I failed with para aramid due to intertersal abrasion ie the fibres destroyed each other when dynamic loading was applied, in simple terms.

However from failure we learn. I then developed a hybrid cable product that was branded Triton under my employer at the time, later being made under licence for us by Bridon as Tiger. This was a central fibre core, with an extruded polyester (Hytrel) cover. Each of the outer 6 steel wire strands were then sheaved in a trapezoidal wedge extruded using a rotating die, the clever bit and a first. The wedge would form the helix of the outer strands. Mathematically a wire cable/rope shouldn't work. By effectively creating a pre formed helix for closing the final rope/cable and having smooth surfaces friction was reduced.

That work was decried by Professors of Engineering at several universities as defying the laws of physics, not the first nor last time in my career did I do such things. We then sold the rights to Bridon, who then in concert with me developed a product for cable stayed bridges. The 1st being the dartford Crossing where the wire profile, almost a flattened figure of 8 was drawn adding zinc for corrosion protection, then extruded with a polyester sheaf before being closed for the final ropes/cables.

The failure mode of para aramid is how bullet proof vests, personal armour are made. DuPont asked us to continue working with them in that arena. The CEO explained it wasn't part of his core business. DuPont gave him a cheque for £24m to cover our failed development costs. Fantastic time working in a true industrial conglomerate where failure was accepted and some amazing things were done.

Fantastic memories to take into retirement at the end of the month after 49 years in the wonderful world of Engineering.

Been a long time since, but the technique is probably further developed to use in bridges.
Good stuff.

It was good of DuPont to appreciate , and pay for, failure. They are a company that knows that from failure comes success. Along with the Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing Company (commonly known by its other name ;) ), one of my favorite companies.
 
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