Relocated Roof pump but weird problem?

[Stu1958]

Hi All
I had my 2005 E85 2.0 Z4 roof pump assembly refurbed and relocated to the boot.
So the problem is the roof closes every time ie comes out of the boot like a jack in the box no problem!
However, when i want to open the roof it unlatches from the screen then seems to stick.
It clears the roof just so the latches are not sticking but sticks just above the screen
If I help it with a push it continues and opens and latches down in the boot.

So as a test I swapped over each pair of hydraulic lines on the pump and reversed the motor connectors.
This way the roof pulls off the screen no problem at all but sticks coming out of the boot so the exact opposite of the above.

This proves to me that the rams are working fine in either direction as long as they are getting hydraulic pressure.
It also proves that for some reason the pump seems to be working far better in one direction than the other.
The motor seems to be turning equally well in either direction.

I recently acquired another refurbed pump and motor unit and this is acting in exactly the same way.
I am somewhat baffled!

Can anybody help?
Stu

 

[gookah]

oil level perhaps? is the pump the right way up after relocation, and does it suck air after the level drops?

 

[Stu1958]

The unit is upright but leaning towards the rear of the car but it has to so it fits.
It looks the same as most other boot/trunk relocations.
However I have wondered myself whether it could be something to do with the orientation.

 

[Stu1958]

Ive tried adjusting what I assume are the pressure regulators under the plastic oil resevoir but no real success.
Ive even modified one of my plastic covers so i can adjust these in situ.
Ive worked out that looking from the top with the hoses at the front the right hand adjuster seems to govern the pressure for the open cycle and the left hand is for the close cycle.
If I back off the LH adjuster to the point where the roof doesnt lift out of the boot then tighten it half a turn thats all it needs.
But even if I tighten the RH adjuster all the way down the roof still sticks on opening.

I'm also suspecting it may be something to do with the bypass valve as this seems to be on the "open" path but my release valve does seem to be working properly.

The only other observation I have noted is if Ive done something major like swap the pump or motor the open cycle will work for the first half dozen times you try it before starting to stick.

This has thrown me a few times thinking I had fixed it only to see it fail after putting it all back together.
Tony I will send a pm as soon as ive worked out how to do it ;/

 

[Jack Ratt]

Are you sure the problem is the pump? Have you checked all the hinged joints on the roof? If one is out of line it could cause similar problems

 

[Stu1958]

It's not mechanical as the roof opens fine if I reverse the hoses and motor connections

 

[IVIajor]

Hi. Did you solve this problem after relocating the motor mine is going exactly the same. Opens very fast but struggles to raise from the boot...a couple of attempts and it slowly closes. Would be interested to see if you solved it.

 

[fbex2008]

Hi, I am also interested in knowing if you ended up solving the issue.

I bought my 2.5 z4 car used last year, and the P.O.s attempted to fix the roof, but lost some parts. The motor and housing were gone, leaving me with the reservoir dangling from the lines in the trunk, and all the trim pieces taken apart in the trunk. This means I have no idea if they accidentally messed something up or accidentally switched up something along the way.

Your help would be greatly appreciated!

-Fred

 

[colb]

You will need to get a replacement motor and put it back on the pump, top up the reservoir and test it to see if its working or at least diagnose whats wrong. As its already in the boot you will be able to work on it, best repositioned in the boot anyway, you will not need the plastic housing it was sitting in when it was in the original position.

 

[HoodTech]

My 2 cents. I feel inclined to respond to this thread as we came across the issue for a customer today. During the virus we have been using reconditioned parts whilst BMW aren't in operation, usually use brand new genuine parts for reference.

After removal of the existing hydroelectric motor unit we probe the terminals to ensure the valve block is fully operational. Port 12/14 on the new design will pressurize and fluid will projectile from the port. Reverse the polarity and port 11/13 will not pressurize until you seal port 12/14 with a suitable screw to test. Our "reconditioned" unit had this issue and when tested, port 11/13 was unable to pressurize when the other port was sealed, creating the roof will open but not close effect vice versa. The problem being these reconditioned hydroelectric motors have the electric part adequately repaired but the valve block is probably not as simple to maintain, yet has encountered the same long term water ingress as the motor.

Check the valve block and replace accordingly, hopefully with your still present old unit. If you swap the lines over to the corresponding port and the problem is reversed then your lines/cylinders are sealed and operational. Don't worry about the electrical side of things, the issue is your hydraulic pressure in the valve block.

Good luck.

 

[t-tony]

My 2 cents. I feel inclined to respond to this thread as we came across the issue for a customer today. During the virus we have been using reconditioned parts whilst BMW aren't in operation, usually use brand new genuine parts for reference.

After removal of the existing hydroelectric motor unit we probe the terminals to ensure the valve block is fully operational. Port 12/14 on the new design will pressurize and fluid will projectile from the port. Reverse the polarity and port 11/13 will not pressurize until you seal port 12/14 with a suitable screw to test. Our "reconditioned" unit had this issue and when tested, port 11/13 was unable to pressurize when the other port was sealed, creating the roof will open but not close effect vice versa. The problem being these reconditioned hydroelectric motors have the electric part adequately repaired but the valve block is probably not as simple to maintain, yet has encountered the same long term water ingress as the motor.

Check the valve block and replace accordingly, hopefully with your still present old unit. If you swap the lines over to the corresponding port and the problem is reversed then your lines/cylinders are sealed and operational. Don't worry about the electrical side of things, the issue is your hydraulic pressure in the valve block.

Good luck.

That is good info, thank you for posting. Also welcome to the forum from me near Lincoln.

Tony.

 

[ppavuk]

I had experienced exactly same problem since last autumn. roof closes promptly, but to open it takes a lot of time and requires a push as it may stick in semi-opened position.

Yesterday I've challenged myself with motor relocation, which went surprisingly well, by the way. I've managed to open motor housing, pulled the motor to the boot and then pulled out bottom housing part. As expected, water everywhere and soundproofing very wet. Motorpump assembly was looking like a lump of dirt.

Cleaned and lubricated the motor, which somewhat improved it operation, but not fully cured the problem. So it seems that issue not with the motor but with the pump. I have swapped hydraulic lines and motor polarity. Since then it opens promptly and latches in open position, but closes slowly. I think this indicates a problem with pump itself.

I have ordered refurbished motorpump assembly from https://roofmotors.co.uk/bmw-z4-e85-convertible-motor-pump-roof-motor-pump-54347193448?search=z4 and hoping that new unit will resolve the issue.

I will update once installed.

 

[ppavuk]

OK, I have an update now. Roof motors.co.uk never sent me the unit. It turned out they don't have it in stock. I've decided to go dealer route, but UK dealers wasn't responsive due to covid.

So I found pump and motor assembly on continent, 440 euro delivered.

It arrived yesterday, and I had installed it today.

Unfortunately when I disassembled everything almost 3 weeks before I failed to close boot lid tightly, and bloody light sucked out the life from my zed. Charging it now.

However, I've manually unlatched it and run new pump on external power source (I have 10A lab power source). I've run it on 12.3V and it takes under 8 seconds to open/close the roof.

I'll charge the battery overnight, and will perform some tests tomo, but anyways it seems that problem solved.

If anyone interested in purchasing old unit for rebuilt - send me a message. It indeed has the issue with pump itself, and possibly with motor. New unit sounds way healthier when I run it, however there is still some life in it. So happy to get rid of it for some £50 for professional rebuilders or six-pack for fellow club members.

I also relocated new unit to the boot, will manufacture custom bracket to hold it in place and a cappeted panel to hide it. No way I'll allow £400 part to sink again.

 

[ppavuk]

OK, I started it. Roof drops and rises as never before. It is quick indeed.

I think it is the best £400 I've spent on this car, no doubt.

When I bought it it was OK, now I see how it should be.

Plan for tomo is to bleed the system, as oil changed the colour from clear to brown already, there must be s*** loads of crap inside. After that a custom bracket to hold motor in place, and after that ages of roof-down motoring!

 

[Althulas]

Good result, hope you get to enjoy some top down fun soon.

 

[ppavuk]

Good result, hope you get to enjoy some top down fun soon.

Thank you!

TBO, it was painfully expensive, but result worth any penny spent. Shame there is not much places we can go these days. Many people think that it is to frivolous to drive open top roadster now...

 

[t-tony]

It does not matter if you have your roof down or not Petr, it is no different to riding a motorbike. Put your roof down when you can and enjoy it. I do! and Shirl does too in the oil burner.

Tony.

 

[RBS]

View attachment 145885 OK, I have an update now. Roof motors.co.uk never sent me the unit. It turned out they don't have it in stock. I've decided to go dealer route, but UK dealers wasn't responsive due to covid.

So I found pump and motor assembly on continent, 440 euro delivered.

It arrived yesterday, and I had installed it today.

Unfortunately when I disassembled everything almost 3 weeks before I failed to close boot lid tightly, and bloody light sucked out the life from my zed. Charging it now.

However, I've manually unlatched it and run new pump on external power source (I have 10A lab power source). I've run it on 12.3V and it takes under 8 seconds to open/close the roof.

I'll charge the battery overnight, and will perform some tests tomo, but anyways it seems that problem solved.

If anyone interested in purchasing old unit for rebuilt - send me a message. It indeed has the issue with pump itself, and possibly with motor. New unit sounds way healthier when I run it, however there is still some life in it. So happy to get rid of it for some £50 for professional rebuilders or six-pack for fellow club members.

I also relocated new unit to the boot, will manufacture custom bracket to hold it in place and a cappeted panel to hide it. No way I'll allow £400 part to sink again.

Hi ppavuk, would you be good enough to share your European source for a new motor and pump please?

 

[ppavuk]

Hi ppavuk, would you be good enough to share your European source for a new motor and pump please?

absolutely, mate, https://www.bmwautoparts.net/, they are Lithuanian BMW dealer, I've ordered from them multiple times, they can get pretty much everything for Z4. sometimes they also have massive discounts, as in Lithuania BMW offer discounts for cars older that 10 years. for instance, I've bought headlights set for under EUR900 for a pair delivered, while local dealer quoted me about a grand for just one. They also offer a option to pay cash to courier on delivery, if you are not comfortable sending money this way. However, I never had a issue with them, everything I had ordered - arrived. the only thing is delivery time, it typically over 2 weeks, sometimes 3-4. They also speak English

 

[RBS]

Mate that’s brilliant thanks very much. I was considering the recon route for a pump and motor until I read your post, why not go for a new one at those rates, thanks again