Resolved-faulty side lights caused : Front Indicator glowing if no main beam on

[MD99]

Hi Folks, any steer on why I have this issue on my E85 / 2005 Z4 .

No IGN on
If I switch the side lights on, the front near side indicator ( both bulbs) glow ON ( not flash) .
If I switch ON IGN ( not start) then during the power up routine, the glowing indicator light goes out, for 5 seconds, then comes back on .
If I switch on the main beam ( ie dip headlights) the glowing indicator goes out and stays off. Normal flash works now.
The same happens when I have the engine running.

Any help or thoughts appreciated.

 

[pgunter]

Sounds like a short in the wiring loom such as a bad earth. Have you checked all the wires for damage / bad earth.

 

[MD99]

I took the wheel off and had a good look inside the light cluster and cant see anything amiss. I took out both indicator H21 bulbs with their long bulb holder arrangement and swapped over in case they were playing up but same result. Should I add a new earth somewhere to the indicator circuit? I dont get this can bus stuff!

 

[pgunter]

You will need to get a tester on it to see what circuit needs to be looked at. Auto electrics are a pain to get right.

 

[t-tony]

Have you changed or had changed any bulbs on the car recently, front or rear ? It doesn't sound exactly like an earth issue but rather a cross feed from another source. Could even be the column switch. You sure it's not the parking lights?

Tony.

ps. Could you post some pictures of what happens please? What do you mean by " n/s indicator both bulbs glow" is that the front and side repeater?

 

[MD99]

Hi there , to clarify my issue nly the front near side indicator bulbs ( both ) contained in the headlight assembly glow, the side repeater does not.

By glow I mean are getting powered and not flashing , just on in a steady state of on.

I tried moving the indicator stalk in case it was a parking light issue but no change moving it to left or right or middle ( rest position) .

 

[t-tony]

Ok, so it definitely appears to me that there is a cross feed from another source. Have any bulbs been changed ? If not I would remove the steering column cowling and disconnect the multi plug from the lights/ indicator stalk switch and see if they still light up. What year is your car, my car is 2003 and I think there's only one bulb in the front indicator on mine.

Tony.

 

[MD99]

OK , good tip will try that, but cant just now. My car is 2005 and had two H21W bulbs in the headlight housing.They have a black plastic holder with a cross head top that need a 1/4 turn to release then pull out of the long slot it is housed in. There is a rubber ring seal which makes it hard to get it to come out with just a screwdriver, so I made a sort of fish hook with a wire coat hanger to pull it from the centre of the cross head. There is a bulb below the main beam headlight and one below the main beam, much harder to get at or see. I had the wheels off to get a proper view and used the coat hanger with a loop this time to grab the bulb holder.


http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/c...BytqUb6xKYk2Pfi90vEjB3Dk0tnV-ia0aApooEALw_wcB

 

[MD99]

I have changed the headlight bulbs; will take them all out and see what happens; then put them back one by one.

Does it matter which way round H7 bulbs go ? ?

Thanks Tony

 

[Redline]

Ok, so it definitely appears to me that there is a cross feed from another source. Have any bulbs been changed ? If not I would remove the steering column cowling and disconnect the multi plug from the lights/ indicator stalk switch and see if they still light up. What year is your car, my car is 2003 and I think there's only one bulb in the front indicator on mine.

Tony.

There are two bulbs in the front indicators on the facelift Tony.

 

[Redline]

As tony said - sounds like it is picking up a feed from somewhere through a short.
Do they work correctly when on?
Does anything else act oddly when the indicators are on?

 

[MD99]

There is one odd thing I noticed on a drive yesterday; the indicators all flash as expected but occasionally there is no tell tale click or sound in rhythm with the flashing rate when the lights themselves are flashing normally. Its as though there is a mechanical clicker / relay near the steering column just to be able to hear a sound inside the car when the indicators are actually flashing ok. This may have something to do with it??

 

[t-tony]

Thank you Ian, I wasn't sure.

Tony.

OK , good tip will try that, but cant just now. My car is 2005 and had two H21W bulbs in the headlight housing.They have a black plastic holder with a cross head top that need a 1/4 turn to release then pull out of the long slot it is housed in. There is a rubber ring seal which makes it hard to get it to come out with just a screwdriver, so I made a sort of fish hook with a wire coat hanger to pull it from the centre of the cross head. There is a bulb below the main beam headlight and one below the main beam, much harder to get at or see. I had the wheels off to get a proper view and used the coat hanger with a loop this time to grab the bulb holder.


http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/c...BytqUb6xKYk2Pfi90vEjB3Dk0tnV-ia0aApooEALw_wcB

When you refit the bulb holder try lubricating the "O" ring and you'll find it goes in much easier.

Tony.

ps. I found this one YouTube, it may help.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKvjW1mTP2Q

 

[MD99]

Hi yes helpful - will lube up that rubber ring thing. Never seen a design like it; the video does not show removing them which is the hard part I used a coat hanger for !

 

[t-tony]

With some lube it should come out with the bulb holder. Please keep us posted on developments. Good luck.

Tony.

ps. I've seen some much worse bulb holders on cars over the years.

 

[Stevo7682]

Just read this daft question maybe but are all the front lights working correctly i.e sidelight dip and main i know some of the bmw range utilise the indicator as a back up if bulb failure occurs.

 

[stevie_a]

On my E46 if a side light bulb went out it would put on the indicator light at half brightness .

check that side lights work ( i know some people call them parking lights)

 

[Lee]

Are you guys aware that if you have a bulb out in the headlight assembly it will illuminate the indicator. Mostly if you have a side light bulb out.

This is a safety feature by BMW.

Lee

 

[MD99]

Many thanks for all responses- you were spot on with " its a BMW feature" . My side light ( parking light ) bulbs seemed ok ( glowed) but did not draw enough to to satisfy the ecu looking after the bulb monitoring.I replaced these and the issue resolved.
My next challenge is to fit some "non canbus error LEDS" to try and fit without this happening too. I have some and will try tomorrow and post in other section if successful.

 

[Lee]

Many thanks for all responses- you were spot on with " its a BMW feature" . My side light ( parking light ) bulbs seemed ok ( glowed) but did not draw enough to to satisfy the ecu looking after the bulb monitoring.I replaced these and the issue resolved.
My next challenge is to fit some "non canbus error LEDS" to try and fit without this happening too. I have some and will try tomorrow and post in other section if successful.

If your local I can code this out for you. If anyone near you has Carly / Inpa software this can be sorted.