The dreaded ABS & ASC Lights

[Arran_RPS]

Hi all,

Newbie to the site, I know this has been covered over and over (Trust me I have been trawling through them!) But I am hoping someone local maybe able to assist me with this.

I have recently bought a lovely 1998 Z3 1.9, 71K and in great condition for the age!

Over the passed couple of weeks I have been lurking around the forums trying to solve some of the little issues I have got with the car and have found some very useful answers but unfortunately I have the dreaded ABS ASC lights...

I bought a C110 Plus scanner to try get a idea if it was just a wheel sensor or not... and the results are in and the wheel sensors are showing no faults.

The faults I have are as follows -
95 - CAN Connection to DME/DDE
71 - Pump motor
92 - CAN bus fault
and I did also have a brake switch code

Anyway I cleared the codes, all lights went off, went out for a good blast and lights stayed off and almost felt like the car ran somewhat better.

Plugged the scanner back in, same codes came back and lights came back on, cleared again and currently no lights.*Edit been out this morning and the lights were back again*

After some reading of the threads on this site I have seen a member mention about it feeling like the abs in kicking in when breaking, and someone also mentioning the brake switch which I also have and is making me think has the unit possibly already been switched over and not recoded?

Any help on this would be most appreciated, I am based in Rugby if anyone near by who is experienced with this is that would be willing to take a look I would be very thankful.

I don't really want to have to take it to a garage or send the unit off for refurb before ruling anything else out.

I look forward to being part of the site.

Cheers

Arran

 

[Lee46]

Hi all,

Newbie to the site, I know this has been covered over and over (Trust me I have been trawling through them!) But I am hoping someone local maybe able to assist me with this.

I have recently bought a lovely 1998 Z3 1.9, 71K and in great condition for the age!

Over the passed couple of weeks I have been lurking around the forums trying to solve some of the little issues I have got with the car and have found some very useful answers but unfortunately I have the dreaded ABS ASC lights...

I bought a C110 Plus scanner to try get a idea if it was just a wheel sensor or not... and the results are in and the wheel sensors are showing no faults.

The faults I have are as follows -
95 - CAN Connection to DME/DDE
71 - Pump motor
92 - CAN bus fault
and I did also have a brake switch code

Anyway I cleared the codes, all lights went off, went out for a good blast and lights stayed off and almost felt like the car ran somewhat better.

Plugged the scanner back in, same codes came back and lights came back on, cleared again and currently no lights.*Edit been out this morning and the lights were back again*

After some reading of the threads on this site I have seen a member mention about it feeling like the abs in kicking in when breaking, and someone also mentioning the brake switch which I also have and is making me think has the unit possibly already been switched over and not recoded?

Any help on this would be most appreciated, I am based in Rugby if anyone near by who is experienced with this is that would be willing to take a look I would be very thankful.

I don't really want to have to take it to a garage or send the unit off for refurb before ruling anything else out.

I look forward to being part of the site.

Cheers

Arran

Hi there pal,

Have had this experience with my Z3, it all started with an intermittent ‘buzz’ on the brake pedal and slowly got worse untill the light’s stayed on.

I ended up changing all the abs sensors and that cleared the fault. You really don’t need to buy all four mabey just one up front and one rear. For what they go for on ebay it’s not a bad idea to refresh them all. The front sensors are a pain to get out if original.

Pretty sure this will cure your problem pal as it sound’s exactly like the problem I experienced. If not if may be that your ABS pump model is at fault which isn’t the end of the world as sometimes they just need cutting open and a couple of tabs re-soldering.

You’ve probably already seen such advice but might be a good starting point.

Cheers,
Lee

 

[Arran_RPS]

Hi there pal,

Have had this experience with my Z3, it all started with an intermittent ‘buzz’ on the brake pedal and slowly got worse untill the light’s stayed on.

I ended up changing all the abs sensors and that cleared the fault. You really don’t need to buy all four mabey just one up front and one rear. For what they go for on ebay it’s not a bad idea to refresh them all. The front sensors are a pain to get out if original.

Pretty sure this will cure your problem pal as it sound’s exactly like the problem I experienced. If not if may be that your ABS pump model is at fault which isn’t the end of the world as sometimes they just need cutting open and a couple of tabs re-soldering.

You’ve probably already seen such advice but might be a good starting point.

Cheers,
Lee

Cheers Lee,

I was tempted with the ABS sensors as a start, Thinking of doing the disks and pads all around in the coming weeks as they have seen better days.

Yes watched/read plenty on opening up the unit and re-soldering the tabs.

probably dig into more next month, only bought the car this month so the wife will kill me if I throw another couple of hundred pounds at it on brakes and sensors this month!

Cheers for the advice.

Arran

 

[MRH1966]

We're dealing with a similar issue on an 03 plate 2.2 M54 engine.
just replaced the 2 rear sensors, they were the ones with the blue connectors and best to get OEM from BMW at £81 each (ebay was £200 min for the pair)

On the dash we have the ABS light and the Amber brake warning and possibly still the brake sensor light (just put new sensor in)
error codes on INPA are
5e19: Can DME/DDE
5df4: Supply Voltage <9v
5dc0: Wheel speed sensor rear right (Just replaced with new OEM!!)
5d93 Wheel speed front left run up detection
5e26: Power supply sensor

After resetting codes, the lights go out then there is a click from the ABS pump/module and the power supply sensor code came back up.
So thinking we should replace the ABS module next before anything else...

Our module number is 6756292 which appears to be the same as an e46 3 series, so readily available for about £30.

Not sure where we'll be looking after replacing the pump, if that doesn't work

 

[Arran_RPS]

Further update which I forgot to mention in the original post is that all the brake lines were changed for the mot, would this be related?

I have got some wheel speed sensors on order from a place in Germany so that is going to be the first mayor job to tackle once they arrive.

 

[NZ00Z3]

Hi Arran

Good luck with the wheel speed sensors. As you don't have any wheel speed sensor codes you might be looking in the wrong place.

What is the last 7 digits of your VIN number? The 98 1.9L Z3's were fitted with two different ABS units. Having the VIN number will tell us which one you have.

The early ABS units are a bit of a pain as they talk OBD1/ADS for diagnostics and coding. If you need to change the ABS unit, finding someone with an OBD1/ADS diagnostic set to code the new unit can be a problem.

The Later ABS units talk OBD11 and are far easier to manage.

The "71 pump motor" code is interesting. I haven't seen the 71 code before. Maybe its from an early ABS unit. On the later ABS units the usual code is "113 pump motor", which mean there are a couple of solder joints to redo in the module.

Let us know how you get on with the wheel speed sensors. If you are still getting the same codes, post your VIN number.

Regards

Murray

 

[Arran_RPS]

Hi Arran

Good luck with the wheel speed sensors. As you don't have any wheel speed sensor codes you might be looking in the wrong place.

What is the last 7 digits of your VIN number? The 98 1.9L Z3's were fitted with two different ABS units. Having the VIN number will tell us which one you have.

The early ABS units are a bit of a pain as they talk OBD1/ADS for diagnostics and coding. If you need to change the ABS unit, finding someone with an OBD1/ADS diagnostic set to code the new unit can be a problem.

The Later ABS units talk OBD11 and are far easier to manage.

The "71 pump motor" code is interesting. I haven't seen the 71 code before. Maybe its from an early ABS unit. On the later ABS units the usual code is "113 pump motor", which mean there are a couple of solder joints to redo in the module.

Let us know how you get on with the wheel speed sensors. If you are still getting the same codes, post your VIN number.

Regards

Murray

Cheers for the reply Murray,

I thought based on some of the threads on here it looked like a good place to start, As I mentioned it only a cheaper scanner so don't no how much I trust it. I need to catch hold of my neighbour as he is a bit of a car guru and has a shop quality scanner.

seems to be some what intermittent, I can clear the codes and they will stay off until the next morning and then some times the code wont clear but after a few miles they go off?!

Plus for £50 delivered for 2 x front and 2 x rears I will swap them out anyway for piece of mine when I do the discs and pads, hopefully that will keep them at bay for a while.

Vin ends in - LD85774
ASC unit P/N is - 10.0204-0061.4 (34.51-1 164 896)
ABS + ASC unit - 34.51-1 164 897 Couldn't see all of the other number starting with 10.

Hopefully you can shine some light.

 

[NZ00Z3]

Thank you for the VIN number and part numbers.

The plot thickens.

The VIN number in RealOEM list both the early and later ABS units as used on your car, so that's not much use.

The parts numbers are not found in RealOEM either. But not to worry, as there are lots of secondhand ABS units that match your part numbers for sale on E-Bay UK should you need to change it.

Attached is a file on the common "pump motor" failure for the ABS unit should you need it.

 

[Arran_RPS]

Thank you for the VIN number and part numbers.

The plot thickens.

The VIN number in RealOEM list both the early and later ABS units as used on your car, so that's not much use.

The parts numbers are not found in RealOEM either. But not to worry, as there are lots of secondhand ABS units that match your part numbers for sale on E-Bay UK should you need to change it.

Attached is a file on the common "pump motor" failure for the ABS unit should you need it.

Cheers, I will give it a read and see how much more money I can throw at the car haha.

 

[Arran_RPS]

So a further update, I went out earlier and the lights were on, after 20 mins of driving the lights went out and stay out like mentioned above.
Anyway on the way home I thought I would try the manual test and pulled up in a gravel lay-by and gave it some gas and dropped the clutch, The wheels span up a bit but the ASC light flashed whilst this was happening and then went back off. Couldn't test the ABS as there was another car in the lay-by.

Would that point to the fact the ASC system is actually working and the pump is ok?

 

[t-tony]

I would day that as the ASC light come on as the wheel(s) spun that system is doing it's job.
Try and find a straight quiet road and give the ABS a workout. Only if it's safe though. Does he ABS light come on with ignition on and go out after it's "self test?"

Tony.

 

[Jack Ratt]

It's not unheard of for the ASC/ABS lights to come on intermittently and then to go out. Could just be dirt on the face of the sensor. When your new sensors arrive I personally wouldn't change them unless the lights come back on and stay on.

 

[Arran_RPS]

I would day that as the ASC light come on as the wheel(s) spun that system is doing it's job.
Try and find a straight quiet road and give the ABS a workout. Only if it's safe though. Does he ABS light come on with ignition on and go out after it's "self test?"

Tony.

Thanks for the response, they come on and as I found out the other day they don't go off after a self test (some nice stripes left on the road) they just randomly turn off after 20/30 mins of driving.

 

[Arran_RPS]

It's not unheard of for the ASC/ABS lights to come on intermittently and then to go out. Could just be dirt on the face of the sensor. When your new sensors arrive I personally wouldn't change them unless the lights come back on and stay on.

The lights seem to come back on after the car has been sat for a couple of hours, went out earlier to move it onto the drive way and after being back home for 4/5 hours they were back on. So god knows what is happening

 

[mrscalex]

The "71 pump motor" code is interesting. I haven't seen the 71 code before. Maybe its from an early ABS unit. On the later ABS units the usual code is "113 pump motor", which mean there are a couple of solder joints to redo in the module.

That's the same code and same number quoted differently. Error 113 in decimal (base 10) is the same as error 71 in Hex (base 16). To convert between the two - (16*7) + (1*) = 113.

 

[NZ00Z3]

That's the same code and same number quoted differently. Error 113 in decimal (base 10) is the same as error 71 in Hex (base 16). To convert between the two - (16*7) + (1*) = 113.

Thank you @mrscalex for discovering that. Learned something new today.

 

[mrscalex]

Thank you @mrscalex for discovering that. Learned something new today.

I'm an ex-computer programmer and it was important in those days to understand Hex and binary. Indication of Hex is stringent in that world and you'd prefix according to the environment rules. I've always used & (ampersand) as a throwback to learning on BBC Micros. But in diagnostics and more generally speaking 0x is specified. The problem is the prefix is rarely used which makes things confusing. Generally people speak about decimal error codes more often but it's not at all unusual for people to refer to the Hex code without making it clear (and probably not being apparent to them much of the time).

From memory the C110 hand-held reader by way of example uses Hex codes. INPA uses decimal for the code itself and Hex for the parameters. The give away is seeing the characters A-F in the number but of course unless one of the places is >9 that won't be apparent.

Hex is easy as long as you can adjust your head to count in 16s. You don't stop at 9 and continue through A=10 up to F=15. Then like decimal increment the next place along and start again. So 10=16.

 

[Redline]

I'm an ex-computer programmer and it was important in those days to understand Hex and binary. Indication of Hex is stringent in that world and you'd prefix according to the environment rules. I've always used & (ampersand) as a throwback to learning on BBC Micros. But in diagnostics and more generally speaking 0x is specified. The problem is the prefix is rarely used which makes things confusing. Generally people speak about decimal error codes more often but it's not at all unusual for people to refer to the Hex code without making it clear (and probably not being apparent to them much of the time).

From memory the C110 hand-held reader by way of example uses Hex codes. INPA uses decimal for the code itself and Hex for the parameters. The give away is seeing the characters A-F in the number but of course unless one of the places is >9 that won't be apparent.

Hex is easy as long as you can adjust your head to count in 16s. You don't stop at 9 and continue through A=10 up to F=15. Then like decimal increment the next place along and start again. So 10=16.

Lots of programmers still fail to recognising the importance of type and type conversion used in systems. Mistakes can be very easy to make and very hard to spot. Ambiguous and inconsistent presentation complicates things and then give that detail to unskilled documentation writers and things can get even more confusing.

 

[mrscalex]

Lots of programmers still fail to recognising the importance of type and type conversion used in systems. Mistakes can be very easy to make and very hard to spot. Ambiguous and inconsistent presentation complicates things and then give that detail to unskilled documentation writers and things can get even more confusing.

Fortunately I always worked in well disciplined IT teams. But it certainly gets more haphazard around the world of car diagnostics.

 

[Arran_RPS]

So after a couple of months it's fixed... I think...

First point of call based on some other post was that a faulty wheel speed senor could be the cause, so I ordered 4 replacements from Germany and planned to change these over when i did discs and pads all round.

This was short lived, after a lengthy battle getting the front drivers side out and just as much of a fight getting the new one back in, i sat back and thought if no wheel speed codes are showing is it really worth it and life is too short when there were some cold beers in the fridge that seemed more appealing than rolling around a damp driveway.

Finished the brakes, plugged the scanner in to just see if I got lucky... anything but! I now had a Front Right Wheel Speed error... bugger!! Thought OK go out for a quick drive and see if it resets, on my return re-scanned and the wheel speed error and pump motor error we both still there with dash lights on.

Tried to reset the lights but they would not clear, as we were moving house I thought sod it I have more pressing things to do and it can wait until after the move. Moving day came and of course the battery had gone flat but that is a story for another day.

Anyway now in the new house and have a nice spacious garage where I can tinker away out of the elements I thought lets finally get to the bottom of this, With nothing to lose as if the ABS Module is the cause its knackered anyway so I thought I would give the DIY repair a go, Module out and on the bench I got to work trying to get the stupid thing open (certainly not as easy as it sounds) then I remembered seeing a post from another member that to save time and hassle to just open a small square above the power pins.

Armed with my trusty £10 Ebay soldering iron I got to work, 2 very clear dry solder joints fixed, square cut out plastic welded back into place and good layer of black automotive sealant to ensure it is waterproof. Module back in car, scanned and codes cleared and have now remained off for the past 3 days!!

Fingers crossed that is it repaired (for now anyway) and one more job ticked off the list.

Weirdly with many little things that need doing to the car that would normally make you get shot asap, I still have a passion to keep tinkering away on a little project.