Z3 fixing kit-cause for concern?

[Phil T]

I’m just looking for a little bit of advice. I have a nongenuine hardtop fixing kit for sale. It came with a hardtop from one of the sites very well-known members. It’s actually posted on here and also on eBay. I’ve just had the following conversation with a gentleman from the US via eBay. As you can see, he is implying that non-genuine fixing kits like the one I’m selling have been implicated in a US accident. My feeling is that this is not genuine and he is trying to get the kit on the cheap, but does anyone have any thoughts, please? Is anyone aware of any UK litigation as he mentioned?

His message:
very dangerous mounts to sell. there is a guy here in the USA that had a set on a car that rolled over on the track. he was seriously hurt when they broke. Last I read his attorney In the Uk was looking for the guy that made them for a lawsuit as they snapped right off and the top almost broke his neck. No where near the stiffness of the metal ones BMW made.

My reply:
Thanks for the comments. I was unaware of that & such accidents are tragedies. However, serious track enthusiasts stiffen the forward mountings with additional brackets, I believe. Also, I wouldn't take a Z3, or any other soft top, on a track without anti roll bars.

The fixing kit I have for sale was used by a club member for several years without problems. He sold the hardtop to me with the fixing kit. However, the demister switch is for a pre-facelift model & mine is a facelift model & it annoyed me. Therefore I dropped on another kit with post facelift wiring, hence having this one for sale.


The manufacturer has many years experience & seems highly regarded by UK Z3 owners, so it's possibly not the same people who manufactured the kit you are referring to.

His further response:
No it is the same kit. I may buy it from you for the court case and then we can request legal. information as to were it was bought. The car was equipped with a roll bar. the mounts broke under regular track conditions .the whole reason for a hardtop is to meet the rules as required. Since this racer was from the Uk originally several of the sanctioning bodies from the Uk area are also joining the fact finding mission. I would like to hear more about Beefing up the front mounts? that is not were they broke.

 

[Lee]

His case is already flawed, every car will go through an inspection before and during race seasons. That would highlight non genuine/home made brackets for the hardtop which is not a safety component. If the hardtop hit him during a roll the roll bar has been made incorrectly.

Ask him for some evidence, bet he wont have any. There would be an article of the crash at least.

Tell him to go whistle

 

[Jack Ratt]

Sounds like a scammer to me Phil.

 

[Sean d]

I know where I'd tell him to go

 

[Bampz]

Sounds like a scam to me to either ask for more information or best ignore altogether

 

[Grumps]

Tell him to get stuffed very politely just like I would!

 

[Nodzed]

Just ignore him would be my advice.

 

[t-tony]

Just don't sell him the fitting kit Phil. He's trying it on mate. There was a guy up in Scotland a few years ago who made and sold these mount kits slong with a hardtop painted to your choice of colour and he threw in an overnight stay in a cottage too.

Tony.

 

[Antm72]

The hardtop is fibreglass the mounts would likely snap clean of that before the bracket let go. Besides not sure how a hard top would hit you on the head and if he rolled the car through his own driving i would say that's down to him.
He fitted them knowing they where not genuine as they where all made in the U.K and do not resemble the genuine part but do a job.

 

[Phil T]

It’s the guy in Scotland who made this kit. Seems absolutely solid to me, every bit strong as the BMW one.

 

[Jjim]

Ignore the fool

 

[the Nefyn cat]

And tell him to learn English while he's at it. Just saying.

 

[Davyhoogy]

I wouldn't be getting involved in any legal case at all, that's if he is telling the truth

If he's not telling the truth then I just wouldn't sell to him anyway for making up such a dog poop story.

 

[Althulas]

I bet you would not see a penny. As ignore him or ask for a copy of the so called legal investigation I bet he won’t be able to supply anything.

 

[Phil T]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all of the helpful advice. It’s handy to know that the community thinks the same thing as I do. Purely for everyone’s interest, he has now said he has a UK address and might be interested in buying. I’ve just sent this reply. I will post any evidence that he comes up with.

Hi,

Just for your information, I’ve now received a dozen replies from Z3 enthusiasts in the UK. I have asked opinions as I’m not an expert. Needless to say they have never heard of the case. They have raised several points.

Before getting onto a racetrack each car is inspected. Non-genuine parts would’ve been highlighted.

The Fiberglas from the hardtop would break well before the metal bracket.

To hit him on the head, the rollbars would have to have been incorrectly fitted and failed.

While not genuine BMW, the overwhelming feeling is that the kit is perfectly safe (you can view the whole thread at Zroadster.org). If you have any evidence to the contrary, the U.K.’s Z3 community would very much like to see it. If you could post me links to the news website reporting the crash then we would find that extremely useful. In the meantime, if you intend to bid on the item please be very aware of the payment terms and postage to a UK address only.

Regards

 

[Dino D]

I would block him and avoid all further contact.
If you sell it to him in you are for a world of grief for sure.

 

[Jjim]

I wouldn’t even sell to them, even if they bid and won. Just get the impression they are either scamming or will try and pull a dodge.

More likely that you will send the brackets, then get a response like that it was ‘not as described’ and want to return for a full refund. Then when you get it back, it’s actually two pieces of twisted scrap metal.
Then you have to refund them and they still have the brackets.

Stay away.

 

[Phil T]

Thanks for the continued comments. He is certainly sticking to his story. I’ll keep posting encase people are finding this interesting. I completely take on board comments about not selling to him. No bids from him yet.

New message from: dudeboy777 (1,629)
I have seen the mounts and the aluminum just snapped. The car I do not think rolled over but slid sideways and hit a small barrier. the top continued after breaking and hit the wall and bounced back into the driver. There are a lot of write up on it. I will advise you more when I talk with the attorneys. I do not know about pre race inspections but I know there are hundreds of aftermarket parts on cars and not every one goes thru extensive testing. I do know an engineer has inspected the mounts and concludes compared to the factory mounts that are triangulated , made of steel, welded not bolted together and mounted with 3 attaching points he feels these aluminum are 20% or less as strong as original. I have gathered photos and parts of z3s with the factory and a Weismann hardtop that have rolled over in the past and the tops remained intact with minimum damage. the mounts are not even bent on one of them as I have made a jig to compare it with oem new mounts.
Please advise your fellow car guys they are putting their lives in their own hands and reducing a positive outcome if using these mounts. There is not a whole lot of write up about it but will be soon when court dates are set. I think that is to try and find the maker of these before they disappear. Several people are looking in the UK to serve papers when found from what I understand.

By the way, I manufacture parts for NASCAR cars and I also build parts for BMW classic. I was hired to build a jig and do research into other accidents with the z3 on and off the track and to build a jig for the mounts to show what happens to them.
I do have a top that was in a wreck were the driver hit a tree sideways at about 30mph. That top has the fiberglass broken pretty severely And as you stated the mounts were oem and had no damage. the back glass was destroyed . The mounting points on the body was moved inward about 150mm.
but the top remained on the car. I will try to send photos

 

[Lee]

I did a quick check on who he is...... Oh look he sells hardtop fitting kits in the US and he's a car breaker.

Put two and two together mate.

 

[Stevo7682]

Having just read the last post you have already asked him for evidence of what he is saying and he has gave you nothing.
He says he was hired to build a jig to test them ( therefore he would need a couple of genuine and non genuine one to compare) he must have evidence of the test results to back what he says .
Still think he's had one to many shandys