Rebody 507 Tribute Build thread

[Dxbolton]

That will give you problems. the striker plate you have added is too far away from the push pin on the door handle.
What you need to do is exactly what you have done but on your plate it needs to be bent towards you at 90 degrees. Then another bend of approx 9o degrees downwards. This places the new striker plate much closer to the pin of the door handle so it doesn't need to travel very far before it engages the plate and opens the door. The door handle pin must not touch the plate otherwise the car will deadlock, if it does then hopefully you have run the emergency release wire to the boot so you can touch the battery +ve to un deadlock the car.
I will try and do a sketch and post it later.

The Z3 central locking does not often fail but the deadlocking problem has been a major problem for builders, It was our own Gooka from this forum that solved it.

I am intrigued by Dxboltons solution, please keep us inform with lots of pictures.

Rather than bend the striker plate I tilted the handle slightly to get the same result. I used a long bolt from the push button to the plate and the push action is very light to operate. There is approx 1mm clearance between bolt and striker.
I can easily release the door skin and remove it without any solid connected linkage.
@Duncodin you need to make sure you have access for modification or repairs. Whilst your idea is good, just make sure you can easily release the handle from the mechanism to gain access to the inner door.

 

[Dxbolton]

@Duncodin The Alfa handle is actually a push mechanism, although you pull the handle

 

[Pingu]

I think I know what you mean. The rod wouldn't be welded/screwed rigid to the z3 handle. It would be attached via a bearing or hinge that allows the rod to swivel. The rod comes out at a fixed angle but as it moves the angle between the rod and Z3 handle can change.

Looking at door from this angle

View attachment 279071


View attachment 279069

1. Original Z3 handle in the closed position.
2. Pull the handle out and up to open the door.

3. Red tribute door skin over the door. The grey is a pull handle. Sorry. Not a very good representation but I hope you know what I mean. It's attached via a rod to the original z3 handle.

4. Pull the exterior handle which, in turn, pulls up on the original Z3 handle.

The rod isn't fixed rigid to the Z3 handle. There'd be a roller bearing behind the z3 handle.

The drawing is excellent

I think you will be ok if the Z3 door release is triggered at an angle similar to 4. If it is much more, you may have problems.

The only way to find out is to try your design. Nothing ventured...

I've probably got two ideas in the bin for every one that is on the car, so I've done plenty of venturing

 

[Duncodin]

The drawing is excellent

I think you will be ok if the Z3 door release is triggered at an angle similar to 4. If it is much more, you may have problems.

The only way to find out is to try your design. Nothing ventured...

I've probably got two ideas in the bin for every one that is on the car, so I've done plenty of venturing

This is a handle I might try. Just received it today.

I've got a flat sheet of fibreglass. I'm going to fix it to the door of my Z and guestimate the distance and angle from the steel skin and fit this handle to that 'skin'.

The door handle on the Z3 moves quite easily up to about 45 degrees without anything happening then another cm against some resiistance and the door clicks open. I'm thinking of fitting the handle a bit higher up the door than in my diagram so that there's an even pull at that last bit of resistance.

 

[Dxbolton]

The original handles act on the lock. The bar which operates the lock originally had a plastic sleeve where the red circle is, it’s missing here.
By adding a new tube over this section you remove alot of slack from the handle operation, so the movement you have before it starts working is due to this sleeve having disintegrated and fallen off years ago.
I discovered this when I had the handles removed

 

[Dxbolton]

This may help @Duncodin

 

[Pingu]

This is a handle I might try. Just received it today.

View attachment 279117

View attachment 279119

View attachment 279121


I've got a flat sheet of fibreglass. I'm going to fix it to the door of my Z and guestimate the distance and angle from the steel skin and fit this handle to that 'skin'.

The door handle on the Z3 moves quite easily up to about 45 degrees without anything happening then another cm against some resiistance and the door clicks open. I'm thinking of fitting the handle a bit higher up the door than in my diagram so that there's an even pull at that last bit of resistance.

They look very nice, but three observations...

How does the rear part attach?
The nose looks like it would go into the door skin when you open the door. Am I wrong, or have you thought about this?
The handle doesn't open in a straight line. Does your design compensate for this?

 

[Pond]

Please forgive my naivety, as I have no clue, and am just starting to 'gear up' for my build, but is there not a way of junking the BMW locking system and going 'old school'; ie no central locking and no deadlocking? I would like my build to be as 1960s authentic as possible. I would be happy with a key for the doors and a separate key for the ignition. Or am I missing the point?

 

[Dxbolton]

Please forgive my naivety, as I have no clue, and am just starting to 'gear up' for my build, but is there not a way of junking the BMW locking system and going 'old school'; ie no central locking and no deadlocking? I would like my build to be as 1960s authentic as possible. I would be happy with a key for the doors and a separate key for the ignition. Or am I missing the point?

Everything is possible, it depends how much time and effort you put into the build.
Why change out good locks for another product?
For old school you could configure the door key to operate a solenoid and pop open as per the 50’s custom cars,
The push button acting on the original door handle is a tried and trusted method that is proven to work.
If you read this thread in its entirety you will see the alternative I tried didn’t work after weeks of adaptations.
Maybe others will have success with different handles, and I look forward to seeing which solution you decide to use

 

[Pond]

Everything is possible, it depends how much time and effort you put into the build.
Why change out good locks for another product?
For old school you could configure the door key to operate a solenoid and pop open as per the 50’s custom cars,
The push button acting on the original door handle is a tried and trusted method that is proven to work.
If you read this thread in its entirety you will see the alternative I tried didn’t work after weeks of adaptations.
Maybe others will have success with different handles, and I look forward to seeing which solution you decide to use

I get that. It just seems to me that trying to 'adapt' a system to look like something more traditional, but work in the way it was intended on the 'donor' is a little strange. Why not make it work in the traditional way, rather than try to 'adapt' it? To me mechanical is far simpler than electronic...and that is the way the 1960s cars were made.

As I said, I am a total beginner in all this. I will, no doubt, have many days and night scratching my head and asking for advice when I can't find solutions. I am looking forward to that, in a weird kind of way.

 

[Dxbolton]

I get that. It just seems to me that trying to 'adapt' a system to look like something more traditional, but work in the way it was intended on the 'donor' is a little strange. Why not make it work in the traditional way, rather than try to 'adapt' it? To me mechanical is far simpler than electronic...and that is the way the 1960s cars were made.

As I said, I am a total beginner in all this. I will, no doubt, have many days and night scratching my head and asking for advice when I can't find solutions. I am looking forward to that, in a weird kind of way.

I think you’ll do what we all have done previously and what bmw spent millions on r&d.
Reverting to bear claw latches is a retro step.
And potentially as you will need to change the striker assembly on the car tub that will be a monocoque alteration and put you into IVA territory which is a whole new world of pain and hurt.
Adapting something to operate the original mechanism has been used by most companies building Italian replicas in the past

 

[Pond]

I think you’ll do what we all have done previously and what bmw spent millions on r&d.
Reverting to bear claw latches is a retro step.
And potentially as you will need to change the striker assembly on the car tub that will be a monocoque alteration and put you into IVA territory which is a whole new world of pain and hurt.
Adapting something to operate the original mechanism has been used by most companies building Italian replicas in the past

I am NOT going down the IVA route; not for all the tea in China.
Just thinking out loud really, without a car in front of me to assess! Next week hopefully I will have!

 

[Duncodin]

I think we rebody'ers need a separate thread about door locks because it is a topic that affects all rebody'ers. Not just 507'ers.

Please forgive my naivety, as I have no clue, and am just starting to 'gear up' for my build, but is there not a way of junking the BMW locking system and going 'old school'; ie no central locking and no deadlocking? I would like my build to be as 1960s authentic as possible. I would be happy with a key for the doors and a separate key for the ignition. Or am I missing the point?

If you look at @Dxbolton 's door you'll see he's using a classic triumph door handle. I don't know about that specific handle but many of those old handles had a key hole in the button and all the key did, when in the locked position, was prevent the button being depressed. So the keys on many of those old cars didn't do anything at all inside the door. It should be quite easy to follow dxbolton's method and have a key that locks the button and just leave the old z3 mechanism in the unlocked state. Your security, then, is all in the button and the key that enables/disables the button.

But the central locking also activates the immobiliser. Tell your insurer that you'd disabled the immobiliser and they'll probably force to to have an aftermarket one instead. Or you'll have to use the z3 key just to enable/disable the immobiliser before using your old style key to unlock the door.

But after all that though. I don't think any of us are trying to make a replica.

 

[jaguartvr]

I know I keep harping on about the Z3 deadlocking problem but when they deadlock it is a real problem. For this reason a bear claw or any boot lock that is NOT attached to the central locking is a good idea.
If your car is deadlocked just open the boot with your trusty key and flash your emergency wire to the +ve battery terminal and the car will unlock.
Sometimes simple is the way to go.

If anyone has a problem with a deadlocked car you can always ask me to help, I won't but I will enjoy saying "I told you so", yes I'm a nasty b*****d!

 

[Dxbolton]

I know I keep harping on about the Z3 deadlocking problem but when they deadlock it is a real problem. For this reason a bear claw or any boot lock that is NOT attached to the central locking is a good idea.
If your car is deadlocked just open the boot with your trusty key and flash your emergency wire to the +ve battery terminal and the car will unlock.
Sometimes simple is the way to go.

If anyone has a problem with a deadlocked car you can always ask me to help, I won't but I will enjoy saying "I told you so", yes I'm a nasty b*****d!

On a serious note, out of the millions of cars sold, how often has the deadlocking problem occurred?
Yea it is a nightmare if it does occur, but I’m sure it’s very rare.
The solenoid failing us more likely to happen imo

 

[jaguartvr]

They deadlocking problem happens when you fit the extra door skin. The pin from the new door handle doesn't have much throw so it has to be fitted as close to the push plate as possible.
If the door pin puts any pressure on the opening plate the car will deadlock. The only way to open a deadlocked car is to open it with the door key, if you have a door skin you cannot do this.
If your car doesn't have the extra door skins such as the Kobra you don't have to worry.

The last time mine deadlocked I had to remove the rear window and crawl in but even with the key in the ignition the car would not unlock. Trying to remove the door panels with the doors closed and seats in is a nightmare. You need to gain access to door lock lever that is situated at the back of the door which will involve getting the angle grinder out. Much easier to cut the new gap door skin to gain access to the door lock. Some builders of the 250 left a hole in the skin with a plug to hide it along with an old extended key so the lock could be operated.

 

[Dxbolton]

They deadlocking problem happens when you fit the extra door skin. The pin from the new door handle doesn't have much throw so it has to be fitted as close to the push plate as possible.
If the door pin puts any pressure on the opening plate the car will deadlock. The only way to open a deadlocked car is to open it with the door key, if you have a door skin you cannot do this.
If your car doesn't have the extra door skins such as the Kobra you don't have to worry.

The last time mine deadlocked I had to remove the rear window and crawl in but even with the key in the ignition the car would not unlock. Trying to remove the door panels with the doors closed and seats in is a nightmare. You need to gain access to door lock lever that is situated at the back of the door which will involve getting the angle grinder out. Much easier to cut the new gap door skin to gain access to the door lock. Some builders of the 250 left a hole in the skin with a plug to hide it along with an old extended key so the lock could be operated.

This makes sense now!
This is what happened when I tried using the Alfa handles.
My herald handles have a long ‘push’ so maybe less of an issue

 

[Dxbolton]

If this lever does not fully retract, the car will not open using the central locking. The Alfa handle had approx 10mm Push which is not enough to allow the lever to go back.
The herald has about 16mm push so works well

 

[jaguartvr]

That's the bugger, an absolute nightmare to get your fingers to but this is the lever that must be lifted to unlock a deadlocked car.

Can you post a picture of the other side of the lock as it will explain better where this part of the lock is positioned.

 

[Dxbolton]

I’ve started a lock / handle thread too
But here’s the offending lever